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Jim Ward
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Nov 11, 2004 12:15 am
Post subject: rounder |
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Does anyone know why a rounder is a dissolute person? From being a
bad all-rounder? Makes the rounds, like a pub-crawler?
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raymond o'hara
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Nov 11, 2004 12:15 am
Post subject: Re: rounder |
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"Jim Ward" <tomcatpolka@NyOaShPoAoM.com> wrote in message
news:qb45p09lqaa4o2horlru943lf3u80kr19g@4ax.com...
| Quote: | Does anyone know why a rounder is a dissolute person? From being a
bad all-rounder? Makes the rounds, like a pub-crawler?
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I know it as bad all around , meaning completely bad , a rounder was a
slang term for cowboy in the old west. |
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Wood Avens
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Nov 11, 2004 12:15 am
Post subject: Re: rounder |
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On Wed, 10 Nov 2004 17:10:40 -0500, Jim Ward
<tomcatpolka@NyOaShPoAoM.com> wrote:
| Quote: | Does anyone know why a rounder is a dissolute person? From being a
bad all-rounder? Makes the rounds, like a pub-crawler?
|
Are you sure? You aren't thinking of a bounder, are you?
--
Katy Jennison
spamtrap: remove the first two letters after the @
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John Dean
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Nov 11, 2004 5:55 am
Post subject: Re: rounder |
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Jim Ward wrote:
| Quote: | Does anyone know why a rounder is a dissolute person? From being a
bad all-rounder? Makes the rounds, like a pub-crawler?
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OED says someone who 'makes the rounds' of the prison, workhouse and
saloon - a habitual criminal, drunkard or loafer.
--
John Dean
Oxford |
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John Dean
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Nov 11, 2004 6:03 am
Post subject: Re: rounder |
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Wood Avens wrote:
| Quote: | On Wed, 10 Nov 2004 17:10:40 -0500, Jim Ward
tomcatpolka@NyOaShPoAoM.com> wrote:
Does anyone know why a rounder is a dissolute person? From being a
bad all-rounder? Makes the rounds, like a pub-crawler?
Are you sure? You aren't thinking of a bounder, are you?
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Too long since you watched "Lady and the Tramp"
--
John Dean
Oxford |
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Raymond S. Wise
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Nov 11, 2004 6:06 am
Post subject: Re: rounder |
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"Donna Richoux" <trio@euronet.nl> wrote in message
news:1gn2b6a.bm4if510oeci3N%trio@euronet.nl...
| Quote: | raymond o'hara <reoh@comcast.net> wrote:
"Jim Ward" <tomcatpolka@NyOaShPoAoM.com> wrote in message
news:qb45p09lqaa4o2horlru943lf3u80kr19g@4ax.com...
Does anyone know why a rounder is a dissolute person? From being a
bad all-rounder? Makes the rounds, like a pub-crawler?
I know it as bad all around , meaning completely bad , a rounder was a
slang term for cowboy in the old west.
That sounds plausible, yet I don't find any evidence it has meant
"cowboy." Can you suggest something? The Dictionary of the Old West has
no entry for it, only "round-up."
The Dictionary of American English defines "rounder" as "One accustomed
to make the rounds of low resorts; a petty criminal; a man about town,
slang." It dates the word from 1624 which means it was British in
origin, and the US citations refer to New York, Boston, and Chicago.
IMDb says the 1998 movie "Rounders" is about a law school student turned
gambler.
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The definition in *The Century Dictionary* shows the rounds which the
"rounder" makes to include incarceration:
From
www.century-dictionary.com
[quote]
*rounder* [...], _n._ [< _round_1, _v.,_ + _er_1.]
[...]
*2.*
One who habitually goes round, or from point
to point and back, for any purpose ; especially,
one who continually goes the round of misde-
meanor, arrest, trial, imprisonment, and re-
lease, as a habitual drunkard or petty thief.
G---- had made himself conspicuous as a _rounder,_ . . .
and occupied much of his time in threatening employes
of the various railroad companies.
_Philadelphia Times,_ 1886.
A very large proportion of the inmates [of the work-
house on Blackwell's Island] are "old _rounders_" who re-
turn to the Island again and again.
_Christian Union,_ Aug. 25, 1887.
During our civil war the regiments which were com-
posed of plug-uglies, thugs, and midnight _rounders,_ with
noses laid over to one side as evidence of their prowess
in bar-room mills and paving-stone riots, were generally
cringing cowards in battle. _The Century,_ XXXVI. 249.
[end quote]
--
Raymond S. Wise
Minneapolis, Minnesota USA
E-mail: mplsray @ yahoo . com |
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John Dean
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Nov 11, 2004 6:06 am
Post subject: Re: rounder |
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Donna Richoux wrote:
| Quote: | raymond o'hara <reoh@comcast.net> wrote:
"Jim Ward" <tomcatpolka@NyOaShPoAoM.com> wrote in message
news:qb45p09lqaa4o2horlru943lf3u80kr19g@4ax.com...
Does anyone know why a rounder is a dissolute person? From being a
bad all-rounder? Makes the rounds, like a pub-crawler?
I know it as bad all around , meaning completely bad , a rounder
was a slang term for cowboy in the old west.
That sounds plausible, yet I don't find any evidence it has meant
"cowboy." Can you suggest something? The Dictionary of the Old West
has no entry for it, only "round-up."
The Dictionary of American English defines "rounder" as "One
accustomed to make the rounds of low resorts; a petty criminal; a man
about town, slang." It dates the word from 1624 which means it was
British in origin, and the US citations refer to New York, Boston,
and Chicago.
|
OED also has 'rounder' as US slang for a railroad worker:
"Come all you rounders, for I want you to hear The story told of an
engineer,
Casey Jones was the rounder's name, A heavy right-wheeler of a mighty
fame."
I'd be more inclined to expect "rounder-upper" as a term for a cowboy.
--
John Dean
Oxford |
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Sara Lorimer
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Nov 11, 2004 6:06 am
Post subject: Re: rounder |
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Jim Ward wrote:
| Quote: | Does anyone know why a rounder is a dissolute person? From being a
bad all-rounder? Makes the rounds, like a pub-crawler?
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It's short for "round-heeled."
--
SML
Dignity, always dignity. |
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Donna Richoux
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Nov 11, 2004 6:06 am
Post subject: Re: rounder |
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raymond o'hara <reoh@comcast.net> wrote:
| Quote: | "Jim Ward" <tomcatpolka@NyOaShPoAoM.com> wrote in message
news:qb45p09lqaa4o2horlru943lf3u80kr19g@4ax.com...
Does anyone know why a rounder is a dissolute person? From being a
bad all-rounder? Makes the rounds, like a pub-crawler?
I know it as bad all around , meaning completely bad , a rounder was a
slang term for cowboy in the old west.
|
That sounds plausible, yet I don't find any evidence it has meant
"cowboy." Can you suggest something? The Dictionary of the Old West has
no entry for it, only "round-up."
The Dictionary of American English defines "rounder" as "One accustomed
to make the rounds of low resorts; a petty criminal; a man about town,
slang." It dates the word from 1624 which means it was British in
origin, and the US citations refer to New York, Boston, and Chicago.
IMDb says the 1998 movie "Rounders" is about a law school student turned
gambler.
--
Best wishes -- Donna Richoux |
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Ben Zimmer
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Nov 11, 2004 2:03 pm
Post subject: Re: rounder |
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Donna Richoux wrote:
| Quote: |
The Dictionary of American English defines "rounder" as "One accustomed
to make the rounds of low resorts; a petty criminal; a man about town,
slang." It dates the word from 1624 which means it was British in
origin, and the US citations refer to New York, Boston, and Chicago.
IMDb says the 1998 movie "Rounders" is about a law school student turned
gambler.
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As the term is used in the movie, a "rounder" is a poker hustler. |
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Laura F Spira
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Nov 11, 2004 10:08 pm
Post subject: Re: rounder |
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Sara Lorimer wrote:
| Quote: | Jim Ward wrote:
Does anyone know why a rounder is a dissolute person? From being a
bad all-rounder? Makes the rounds, like a pub-crawler?
It's short for "round-heeled."
|
Which reminds me that another good book I read this year is Jane Juska's
"A Round-heeled Woman."
--
Laura
(emulate St. George for email) |
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Christopher Green
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Nov 12, 2004 6:06 am
Post subject: Re: rounder |
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que.sara.saraDELETE@gmail.com (Sara Lorimer) wrote in message news:<1gn1tlo.7d1doy11yhulsN%que.sara.saraDELETE@gmail.com>...
| Quote: | Jim Ward wrote:
Does anyone know why a rounder is a dissolute person? From being a
bad all-rounder? Makes the rounds, like a pub-crawler?
It's short for "round-heeled."
|
I don't think so: in the spectrum of dissolute persons, a "rounder" is
a man, while a "roundheels" is a woman. "Roundheels" or "round-heeled"
suggests that she is a pushover. The meeting of a rounder and a
roundheels is likely to have the outcome that one might expect.
--
Chris Green |
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Joe Fineman
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Nov 12, 2004 6:07 am
Post subject: Re: rounder |
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"John Dean" <john-dean@frag.lineone.net> writes:
| Quote: | OED also has 'rounder' as US slang for a railroad worker:
"Come all you rounders, for I want you to hear The story told of an
engineer,
Casey Jones was the rounder's name, A heavy right-wheeler of a mighty
fame."
|
I have heard that it originally meant a retired railroad worker, such
as would frequent a roundhouse (locomotive shed).
--
--- Joe Fineman joe_f@verizon.net
||: Mixima should be rendered manimal.  | |
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Mickwick
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Nov 12, 2004 10:06 pm
Post subject: Re: rounder |
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In alt.usage.english, Raymond S. Wise quoted:
[...]
| Quote: | G---- had made himself conspicuous as a _rounder,_ . . .
and occupied much of his time in threatening employes
of the various railroad companies.
_Philadelphia Times,_ 1886.
A very large proportion of the inmates [of the work-
house on Blackwell's Island] are "old _rounders_" who re-
turn to the Island again and again.
_Christian Union,_ Aug. 25, 1887.
During our civil war the regiments which were com-
posed of plug-uglies, thugs, and midnight _rounders,_ with
noses laid over to one side as evidence of their prowess
in bar-room mills and paving-stone riots, were generally
cringing cowards in battle. _The Century,_ XXXVI. 249.
|
George Matsell, _Vocabulum_, 1859: A rounder is
One who hangs around faro-banks but does not play. In other
words, a loafer, a man who travels on his shape, and is
supported by a woman, but does not receive enough money to
enable him to play faro. Gamblers call such men rounders,
outsiders, loafers.
Quoted in Eric Partridge's _Dictionary of the Underworld_.
--
Mickwick |
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Sara Lorimer
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Nov 12, 2004 10:06 pm
Post subject: Re: rounder |
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Christopher Green wrote:
| Quote: | que.sara.saraDELETE@gmail.com (Sara Lorimer) wrote>...
Jim Ward wrote:
Does anyone know why a rounder is a dissolute person? From being a
bad all-rounder? Makes the rounds, like a pub-crawler?
It's short for "round-heeled."
I don't think so: in the spectrum of dissolute persons, a "rounder" is
a man, while a "roundheels" is a woman.
|
You may well be right. I've been reading a book lately where a man is
described as a "rounder" meaning that he's easy, and I made an
assumption. It's not a term I encounter often (I don't associate with
such low people, thankyouverymuch).
--
SML |
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