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CyberCypher
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Sep 28, 2004 1:20 pm
Post subject: Re: Capitals and acronyms (was: Re: Incidences -- Now part o |
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Steve Hayes wrote on 28 Sep 2004:
| Quote: | On 27 Sep 2004 16:35:23 -0700, freddy_nerk@hotmail.com (Freddy)
wrote:
Peter Duncanson <mail@peterduncanson.net> wrote in message >> I
would reword the first sentence as:
"Botswana has one of the highest incidences of Aids on the
continent."
As with Maria (I think) "AIDS" ought to be all in caps, as it's an
acronym, though I guess ANZAC is sometimes written with only an
initial cap. What's your view?
I write HIV/Aids, because Aids is an acronym.
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Yeah, but the medical profession and its editors and publishers use
"AIDS", acronym or no. That's because "Aids" and "aids" are
recognizable words with their own meaning. There are exceptions to
every rule.
--
Franke: EFL teacher & medical editor
For email, replace numbers with English alphabet.
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chrissy
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Sep 28, 2004 4:37 pm
Post subject: Re: Incidences -- Now part of the argot? |
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hayesmstw@hotmail.com (Steve Hayes) wrote in message news:<4158df81.91897066@news.saix.net>...
| Quote: | On Mon, 27 Sep 2004 12:25:30 +0100, Peter Duncanson <mail@peterduncanson.net
wrote:
On 27 Sep 2004 01:17:47 -0700, freddy_nerk@hotmail.com (Freddy) wrote:
hayesmstw@hotmail.com (Steve Hayes) wrote in message news:<415771ca.287325011@news.saix.net>...
On 26 Sep 2004 01:32:53 -0700, chrissy_brady1@yahoo.com (chrissy) wrote:
I was wondering about the tendency of media commentators to use this
word where "instances" would have been entirely adequate. I can't help
thinking that people are thinking of "incidents" and deriving the
word's usage from that. Any thoughts on whether this is recent or
something that has been around for a while?
Could you give an axample?
Which would be correct:
"Botswana has one of the worst incidences of Aids on the continent."
"Botswana has one of the worst instances of Aids on the continent."
I don't know about Chrissy, but I'd probably rephrase as follows:
The incidence of AIDS in Botswana is the worst on the continent OR The
worst incidence of AIDS on the continent is in Botswana.
"Instance" here would be wrong, as it is generally synonymous with
"example".
On the other hand, one might legitimately say "there are more
instances of AIDS in Botswana than anywhere else on the continent",
but I'm not sure this would mean quite the same thing, since incidence
seems to imply rate per some benchmark figure.
Yes. Incidence would be measured as cases per n thousand of the population.
I would reword the first sentence as:
"Botswana has one of the highest incidences of Aids on the continent."
That doesn't change the usage of "incidences", however, just the asumption
that Aids is a bad thing, which wasn't really the point of the example.
My point was that "incidences" is not necessarily an error where "instances"
should be used. I was asking the original poster to give an example of such
misuse, as I could not think of one. It's not an error I am aware of having
heard.
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I heard one where the reporter spoke of " recent incidences of gun
crime in the neighbourhood" leading to people responding by arming
themselves. In a separate story, an interviewer asked an expert "how
many incidences have there been of that?"
Finally, someone commenting on Florida's run of weather saif that
there hadn't been "a single summer in recorded history with as many
incidences of hurricanes as this year".
cheers
Chrissy |
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George Hardy
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Sep 28, 2004 7:13 pm
Post subject: Re: Capitals and acronyms (was: Re: Incidences -- Now part o |
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hayesmstw@hotmail.com (Steve Hayes) wrote in message news:<4158fb76.99054997@news.saix.net>...
| Quote: | On 27 Sep 2004 16:35:23 -0700, freddy_nerk@hotmail.com (Freddy) wrote:
Peter Duncanson <mail@peterduncanson.net> wrote in message >> I would reword the first sentence as:
"Botswana has one of the highest incidences of Aids on the continent."
As with Maria (I think) "AIDS" ought to be all in caps, as it's an
acronym, though I guess ANZAC is sometimes written with only an
initial cap. What's your view?
I write HIV/Aids, because Aids is an acronym.
The tendency is to use initial caps, though the older style is to use all
caps, and the older style still is to use full stops.
A.I.D.S. --> AIDS --> Aids
N.A.T.O. --> NATO --> Nato
U.N.I.S.A. --> UNISA --> Unisa
but
BBC not Bbc
USA not Usa
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Or, correctly, AIDS, NATO, USINA, BBC and USA.
GFH
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Ross Howard
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Sep 28, 2004 7:27 pm
Post subject: Re: Capitals and acronyms (was: Re: Incidences -- Now part o |
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On 28 Sep 2004 06:13:00 -0700, georgeh@ankerstein.org (George Hardy)
wrought:
| Quote: | hayesmstw@hotmail.com (Steve Hayes) wrote in message news:<4158fb76.99054997@news.saix.net>...
On 27 Sep 2004 16:35:23 -0700, freddy_nerk@hotmail.com (Freddy) wrote:
Peter Duncanson <mail@peterduncanson.net> wrote in message >> I would reword the first sentence as:
"Botswana has one of the highest incidences of Aids on the continent."
As with Maria (I think) "AIDS" ought to be all in caps, as it's an
acronym, though I guess ANZAC is sometimes written with only an
initial cap. What's your view?
I write HIV/Aids, because Aids is an acronym.
The tendency is to use initial caps, though the older style is to use all
caps, and the older style still is to use full stops.
A.I.D.S. --> AIDS --> Aids
N.A.T.O. --> NATO --> Nato
U.N.I.S.A. --> UNISA --> Unisa
but
BBC not Bbc
USA not Usa
Or, correctly, AIDS, NATO, USINA, BBC and USA.
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And RADAR and LASER, too?
--
Ross Howard |
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CyberCypher
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Sep 28, 2004 7:35 pm
Post subject: Re: Capitals and acronyms (was: Re: Incidences -- Now part o |
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Ross Howard wrote on 28 Sep 2004:
| Quote: | On 28 Sep 2004, George Hardy wrought:
[...]
Or, correctly, AIDS, NATO, USINA, BBC and USA.
And RADAR and LASER, too?
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No, Ross, that "radar" for the electronic device, "Radar" for the name
of the guy on MASH, and probably "RADAR" for gummint manuals. As for
"LASER", that's "Laser" at the beginning of a sentence, and "laser" in
the middle, unless it's somebody's name.
But it is "AIDS".
--
Franke: EFL teacher & medical editor
For email, replace numbers with English alphabet. |
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david56
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Sep 28, 2004 7:40 pm
Post subject: Re: Capitals and acronyms (was: Re: Incidences -- Now part o |
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CyberCypher typed thus:
| Quote: | Ross Howard wrote on 28 Sep 2004:
On 28 Sep 2004, George Hardy wrought:
[...]
Or, correctly, AIDS, NATO, USINA, BBC and USA.
And RADAR and LASER, too?
No, Ross, that "radar" for the electronic device, "Radar" for the name
of the guy on MASH, and probably "RADAR" for gummint manuals. As for
"LASER", that's "Laser" at the beginning of a sentence, and "laser" in
the middle, unless it's somebody's name.
But it is "AIDS".
|
But it's "mash" if you are referring to potatoes. And "Mash" if it
comes after "Monster".
So why "radar" but "NATO". These two acronyms seem to have the same
status.
--
David
===== |
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Areff
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Sep 28, 2004 7:48 pm
Post subject: Re: Capitals and acronyms (was: Re: Incidences -- Now part o |
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CyberCypher wrote:
| Quote: | Yeah, but the medical profession and its editors and publishers use
"AIDS", acronym or no. That's because "Aids" and "aids" are
recognizable words with their own meaning. There are exceptions to
every rule.
|
And say, whatever happened to "AYDS", the chocolate-flavored weight loss
product from the very early 1980s?
Times Square Stores is still around in other guises.
-- |
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CyberCypher
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Sep 28, 2004 8:17 pm
Post subject: Re: Capitals and acronyms (was: Re: Incidences -- Now part o |
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david56 wrote on 28 Sep 2004:
| Quote: | CyberCypher typed thus:
Ross Howard wrote on 28 Sep 2004:
On 28 Sep 2004, George Hardy wrought:
[...]
Or, correctly, AIDS, NATO, USINA, BBC and USA.
And RADAR and LASER, too?
No, Ross, that "radar" for the electronic device, "Radar" for the
name of the guy on MASH, and probably "RADAR" for gummint
manuals. As for "LASER", that's "Laser" at the beginning of a
sentence, and "laser" in the middle, unless it's somebody's name.
But it is "AIDS".
But it's "mash" if you are referring to potatoes. And "Mash" if
it comes after "Monster".
|
It should be "M*A*S*H", I think. At least, that's the way I remember
the movie and TV series titles looking.
| Quote: | So why "radar" but "NATO". These two acronyms seem to have the
same status.
|
They don't really. "Radar" isn't the same type of acronym as NATO:
"Etymology: RAdio Detecting And Ranging" (W3NID). It has been turned
into a word that is applied in everyday life. Cops use radar, bats use
it, and radar detectors use it. The same goes for "laser", although
it's etymology is a different sort: "Etymology: Light Amplification by
Stimulated Emission of Radiation" (W3NID). NATO, according to the AHD4,
is used for only one thing: the North Atlantic Treaty Organization.
--
Franke: EFL teacher & medical editor
For email, replace numbers with English alphabet. |
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Raymond S. Wise
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Sep 28, 2004 8:52 pm
Post subject: Re: Capitals and acronyms (was: Re: Incidences -- Now part o |
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"CyberCypher" <cybercypher@19-16-25-13-01-03.com> wrote in message
news:Xns9572E2C161873cctxt2002@130.133.1.4...
| Quote: | david56 wrote on 28 Sep 2004:
CyberCypher typed thus:
Ross Howard wrote on 28 Sep 2004:
On 28 Sep 2004, George Hardy wrought:
[...]
Or, correctly, AIDS, NATO, USINA, BBC and USA.
And RADAR and LASER, too?
No, Ross, that "radar" for the electronic device, "Radar" for the
name of the guy on MASH, and probably "RADAR" for gummint
manuals. As for "LASER", that's "Laser" at the beginning of a
sentence, and "laser" in the middle, unless it's somebody's name.
But it is "AIDS".
But it's "mash" if you are referring to potatoes. And "Mash" if
it comes after "Monster".
It should be "M*A*S*H", I think. At least, that's the way I remember
the movie and TV series titles looking.
So why "radar" but "NATO". These two acronyms seem to have the
same status.
They don't really. "Radar" isn't the same type of acronym as NATO:
"Etymology: RAdio Detecting And Ranging" (W3NID). It has been turned
into a word that is applied in everyday life. Cops use radar, bats use
it, and radar detectors use it. The same goes for "laser", although
|
Bats use echolocation, a "sonar-like" ability. I would have called it sonar,
but the dictionaries I consulted don't appear to identify sonar with
echolocation.
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&q=echolocation+%22sonar+like%22
The word "sonar" comes from "sound navigation and ranging."
| Quote: | it's etymology is a different sort: "Etymology: Light Amplification by
Stimulated Emission of Radiation" (W3NID). NATO, according to the AHD4,
is used for only one thing: the North Atlantic Treaty Organization.
--
Franke: EFL teacher & medical editor
For email, replace numbers with English alphabet.
|
--
Raymond S. Wise
Minneapolis, Minnesota USA
E-mail: mplsray @ yahoo . com |
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Peter Duncanson
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Sep 29, 2004 12:01 am
Post subject: Re: Capitals and acronyms (was: Re: Incidences -- Now part o |
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On Tue, 28 Sep 2004 09:52:57 -0500, "Raymond S. Wise"
<mplsrayNOSPAM@gbronline.com> wrote:
The distinction appears to be that "echolocation" is the naturally occuring
animal ability, whereas "sonar" is the name of the technology invented by
humans.
--
Peter Duncanson
UK (posting from a.e.u) |
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Steve Hayes
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Sep 29, 2004 8:11 am
Post subject: Re: Capitals and acronyms (was: Re: Incidences -- Now part o |
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On 28 Sep 2004 07:20:25 GMT, CyberCypher <cybercypher@19-16-25-13-01-03.com>
wrote:
| Quote: | Steve Hayes wrote on 28 Sep 2004:
On 27 Sep 2004 16:35:23 -0700, freddy_nerk@hotmail.com (Freddy)
wrote:
Peter Duncanson <mail@peterduncanson.net> wrote in message >> I
would reword the first sentence as:
"Botswana has one of the highest incidences of Aids on the
continent."
As with Maria (I think) "AIDS" ought to be all in caps, as it's an
acronym, though I guess ANZAC is sometimes written with only an
initial cap. What's your view?
I write HIV/Aids, because Aids is an acronym.
Yeah, but the medical profession and its editors and publishers use
"AIDS", acronym or no. That's because "Aids" and "aids" are
recognizable words with their own meaning. There are exceptions to
every rule.
|
Most of our newspapers, however, say HIV/Aids, using *their* house style.
I read them, not the specialised medical media (most of whom are in the pay of
drug companies anyway).
--
Steve Hayes from Tshwane, South Africa
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/7734/stevesig.htm
E-mail - see web page, or parse: shayes at dunelm full stop org full stop uk |
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Steve Hayes
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Sep 29, 2004 9:02 am
Post subject: Re: Capitals and acronyms (was: Re: Incidences -- Now part o |
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On 28 Sep 2004 06:13:00 -0700, georgeh@ankerstein.org (George Hardy) wrote:
| Quote: | Or, correctly, AIDS, NATO, USINA, BBC and USA.
|
Or, even more correctly, A.I.D.S, N.A.T.O., dunno what USINA is, B.B.C. and
U.S.A.
--
Steve Hayes from Tshwane, South Africa
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/7734/stevesig.htm
E-mail - see web page, or parse: shayes at dunelm full stop org full stop uk |
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CyberCypher
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Sep 29, 2004 9:11 am
Post subject: Re: Capitals and acronyms (was: Re: Incidences -- Now part o |
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Steve Hayes wrote on 29 Sep 2004:
| Quote: | On 28 Sep, CyberCypher wrote:
[...]
I write HIV/Aids, because Aids is an acronym.
Yeah, but the medical profession and its editors and publishers
use "AIDS", acronym or no. That's because "Aids" and "aids" are
recognizable words with their own meaning. There are exceptions to
every rule.
Most of our newspapers, however, say HIV/Aids, using *their* house
style.
|
The media are no respecters of anyone else's style. They pretty much do
with the language what they want because they can.
| Quote: | I read them, not the specialised medical media
|
And I read the specialized medical media, not because I prefer medical
reporters to the reports in the normal media, but because I have to
and because I am obliged to follow their style rules.
| Quote: | (most of whom are in the pay of drug companies anyway).
|
And drug companies make lots more money when people spell AIDS all in
caps than when they spell it "Aids". Good point. I'll have to remember
that one, Steve.
--
Franke: EFL teacher & medical editor
For email, replace numbers with English alphabet. |
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Steve Hayes
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Sep 29, 2004 10:25 am
Post subject: Re: Capitals and acronyms (was: Re: Incidences -- Now part o |
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On 29 Sep 2004 03:11:20 GMT, CyberCypher <cybercypher@19-16-25-13-01-03.com>
wrote:
| Quote: | Steve Hayes wrote on 29 Sep 2004:
On 28 Sep, CyberCypher wrote:
[...]
I write HIV/Aids, because Aids is an acronym.
Yeah, but the medical profession and its editors and publishers
use "AIDS", acronym or no. That's because "Aids" and "aids" are
recognizable words with their own meaning. There are exceptions to
every rule.
Most of our newspapers, however, say HIV/Aids, using *their* house
style.
The media are no respecters of anyone else's style. They pretty much do
with the language what they want because they can.
I read them, not the specialised medical media
And I read the specialized medical media, not because I prefer medical
reporters to the reports in the normal media, but because I have to
and because I am obliged to follow their style rules.
|
Well, that's the way it works.
If you don't follow their style rules, they'll either not publish your stuff,
or, if they really want it, their copyeditor will edit it according to the
rules.
| Quote: | (most of whom are in the pay of drug companies anyway).
And drug companies make lots more money when people spell AIDS all in
caps than when they spell it "Aids". Good point. I'll have to remember
that one, Steve.
|
I'm beginning to understand the term "readerly".
--
Steve Hayes from Tshwane, South Africa
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/7734/stevesig.htm
E-mail - see web page, or parse: shayes at dunelm full stop org full stop uk |
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Raymond S. Wise
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Sep 29, 2004 11:21 am
Post subject: Re: Capitals and acronyms (was: Re: Incidences -- Now part o |
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"Steve Hayes" <hayesmstw@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:415a241b.175006665@news.saix.net...
| Quote: | On 28 Sep 2004 06:13:00 -0700, georgeh@ankerstein.org (George Hardy)
wrote:
Or, correctly, AIDS, NATO, USINA, BBC and USA.
Or, even more correctly, A.I.D.S, N.A.T.O., dunno what USINA is, B.B.C.
and
U.S.A.
--
Steve Hayes from Tshwane, South Africa
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/7734/stevesig.htm
E-mail - see web page, or parse: shayes at dunelm full stop org full stop
uk |
How can <A.I.D.S.> be correct if no one uses it?
It's not possible to search for <A.I.D.S.> on Google by itself: Such a
search turns up hits for <AIDS> (and I imagine <Aids> and <aids>). But
better than a search on Google is a search via www.onelook.com for
dictionary entries (well, Onelook.com calls them "dictionaries," but some of
them are encyclopedias, some glossaries). None of the entries had <A.I.D.S.>
as a variant spelling. The *Compact Oxford English Dictionary* at
http://www.askoxford.com/concise_oed/aids?view=uk
lists only <Aids>, while the *Cambridge Advanced Learner's Dictionary* at
http://dictionary.cambridge.org/define.asp?key=1770&dict=CALD
has both <AIDS> and <Aids>. The *Cambridge Dictionary of American English*
at
http://dictionary.cambridge.org/define.asp?key=aids*1+0&dict=A
has only <AIDS>.
That suggests that <Aids> is a BrE variant.
--
Raymond S. Wise
Minneapolis, Minnesota USA
E-mail: mplsray @ yahoo . com |
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