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chris_tine49@hotmail.com
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| Posted: Tue Nov 15, 2005 4:30 am
Post subject: Re: Does Your Writing Workshop Suck Shit?? |
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NYC XYZ wrote:
| Quote: | So why are you offended?
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I'm not offended. At first I was amused. Now I'm bored.
For a long time, scientists thought that expert performers got to a
point of expertise and stayed there by virtue of doing the same
successful thing over a longer time. Then Ericksson and Smith (Toward
a General Theory of Expertise) and others actually tested those
assumptions. They found that unless expert performers continued in
focused, deliberate practice, seeking out challenging training
situations, their measurable performance would decline.
It seems quite likely that your teacher, who you say is an expert
creative writer (and doesn't that mean published, a measure of success
that doesn't interest you?) and with whom you share a sense of scorn
and disdain for the others, has failed to do that.
Instead of improving his writing by deliberate practice, he is
purporting to improve his students' writing. (I'll guess that's in
order to improve his standard of living.) That might be admirable,
except that if there is any truth in your narcissistic rendering, he is
also failing to improve his teaching expertise, if he ever had any.
He is in a state of arrested, perhaps declining, development and
coasting along on ennui.
You, meanwhile, lament that to us, you fickle self-satisfied sycophant,
but you continue to lap at his teat and blame your fellow students.
While you are in this state of symbiotic superiority, you support each
other--him in his adjunct or tenured mediocrity and you in your own
undergrad version thereof.
Good luck exploring those writerly sensibilities. Not writing: that
takes courage.
Chris (sounds like a workshop opportunity) tine
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chris_tine49@hotmail.com
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| Posted: Tue Nov 15, 2005 10:27 pm
Post subject: Re: Does Your Writing Workshop Suck Shit?? |
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Gary Schnabl wrote:
| Quote: | My 1957 Jaguar
XK-140 roadster was parked behind the podium's backdrop curtains
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Do you still have that car?
| Quote: | I worked for WTMJ with the then multiple-year "Sportcaster of the Year" -
Jim Irwin
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A rare breed, Jim Irwin. A sportscaster and a gentleman.
Christine |
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NYC XYZ
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Nov 16, 2005 8:03 am
Post subject: Re: Does Your Writing Workshop Suck Shit?? |
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chris_tine49@hotmail.com wrote:
Wow, I'd hate to see your prissy-ness when you are!
| Quote: | At first I was amused.
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Ah, so it was "compelling" after all, eh?
Indeed, you bore me too.
See what happens when you go off-topic?
Glad you agreed with me that my complaints are nothing new. I love
happy endings!
Good-bye, and good riddance!
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chris_tine49@hotmail.com
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| Posted: Wed Nov 16, 2005 9:58 pm
Post subject: Does your response suck more? (Re: Does Your Writing Worksh |
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NYC XYZ wrote:
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| Quote: | Good-bye, and good riddance!
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It was my pleasure.
Christine |
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Stan (the Man)
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Nov 16, 2005 10:12 pm
Post subject: Re: Does your response suck more? (Re: Does Your Writing Wo |
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chris_tine49@hotmail.com wrote:
| Quote: | NYC XYZ wrote:
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Good-bye, and good riddance!
It was my pleasure.
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Cigarette?
--
Stan |
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NYC XYZ
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| Posted: Wed Nov 16, 2005 11:25 pm
Post subject: Had Another Bowl of Stupid This Morning? Re: Does your resp |
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| Next time you're "bored," try ALT+CTRL+DEL and see what happens! |
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chris_tine49@hotmail.com
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| Posted: Wed Nov 16, 2005 11:58 pm
Post subject: Re: Had Another Bowl of Stupid This Morning? Re: Does your r |
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"Another bowl of stupid" is a cliche. Did you learn that in your
reprehensible workshop?
See if you can find something more novel..
Or if you are ready for intermediate level work, attempt to demolish me
using some other method besides name-calling.
Show us what you got, writer.
Christine |
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NYC XYZ
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Nov 17, 2005 12:36 am
Post subject: Re: Had Another Bowl of Stupid This Morning? Re: Does your r |
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chris_tine49@hotmail.com wrote:
| Quote: | "Another bowl of stupid" is a cliche. Did you learn that in your
reprehensible workshop?
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Personal attacks without supporting evidence such as you've been
practicing are the real cliches.
| Quote: | See if you can find something more novel..
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Here's something new for you: try discussing IDEAS!
| Quote: | Or if you are ready for intermediate level work, attempt to demolish me
using some other method besides name-calling.
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What's the matter, you can dish it but you can't take it?
| Quote: | Show us what you got, writer.
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Why, what have you got?
Such a cliche! |
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chris_tine49@hotmail.com
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| Posted: Thu Nov 17, 2005 3:04 am
Post subject: Re: Had Another Bowl of Stupid This Morning? Re: Does your r |
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NYC XYZ wrote:
| Quote: | Here's something new for you: try discussing IDEAS!
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I thought you wanted to learn how to write.
Christine |
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Ivor Longhorn
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Nov 17, 2005 6:57 am
Post subject: Re: Had Another Bowl of Stupid This Morning? Re: Does your r |
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Shazam! No reason, it's just magic. So "chris_tine49@hotmail.com"
<chris.editrix@gmail.com> said:
| Quote: |
"Another bowl of stupid" is a cliche. Did you learn that in your
reprehensible workshop?
See if you can find something more novel..
Or if you are ready for intermediate level work, attempt to demolish me
using some other method besides name-calling.
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Why? Namecalling works a fucking treat with you, manrepeller.
| Quote: | Show us what you got, writer.
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Oh lord.
Dr Zen
Excruciatingly embarrasing signature contents go here.
http://gollyg.blogspot.com |
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chris_tine49@hotmail.com
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Nov 17, 2005 8:00 am
Post subject: Re: Had Another Bowl of Stupid This Morning? Re: Does your r |
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Ivor Longhorn wrote:
I love when you do that world weary yet still imperious, limp Brit
thing.
Christine |
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NYC XYZ
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Nov 17, 2005 9:47 pm
Post subject: No Wonder Writing Workshops Suck Shit (Re: Does Your Writing |
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OMG, are you still at it?
You need to learn how to read -- what's in front of you.
For others: it seems that my unease isn't isolated, for there is
dissatisfaction across academe, which almost mirrors point-for-point
some of my views!
http://www.slate.com/id/2130322/?nav=tap3
chris_tine49@hotmail.com wrote:
| Quote: |
I thought you wanted to learn how to write.
Christine |
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chris_tine49@hotmail.com
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Nov 17, 2005 11:23 pm
Post subject: Re: No Wonder Writing Workshops Suck Shit (Re: Does Your Wri |
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NYC XYZ wrote:
| Quote: | OMG, are you still at it?
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Oh yeah. As are you.
You know the old saw, I'm sure: old editors don't die, they just
rewrite the text. And old writing workshop leaders don't die, either;
they just spawn a new generation of writing workshop leaders.
| Quote: | You need to learn how to read -- what's in front of you.
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<g> My comment was sarcastic. I'd like to call it ironic but it wasn't
that lofty.
You obviously don't want to improve your writing here. You want to win
debates and, maybe, display the talent that you feel is not being fed
in your workshop.
Although you claim to seek more pointed feedback, you fail to consider
the validity of any remarks that violate your own preconceptions.You
have dismissed as stupid reactions to your "work" or ideas about
writing workshops and the person who made them (me).
It's reasonable to think that you just come here to reinforce your
opinion that writing workshops suck and their leaders are douche bags.
What you want is mom's unconditional approval, a
tape-it-on-the-fridge-door and show-it-to-your-neighbor-beaming
response. I'm hanging that hunch on your reactions to challenges and
your initial post that frames your remarks as coming from an
acknowledged superior writer.
| Quote: | For others: it seems that my unease isn't isolated, for there is
dissatisfaction across academe, which almost mirrors point-for-point
some of my views!
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Of course "there is dissatisfaction across academe. . ." Do you think
your own is the first of something new? And all that dissatisfaction,
centuries of it, has the theme that academia is for advancing
academics, not for educating students. Still people sweat and scrape to
buy/earn what might be mainly a brand: "college educated."
So far, you have proposed increased rigor for college writing workshops
but you've been vague about exactly how that would look.
You've further confused your audience by advocating extensive discourse
on linguistic and other theory in a writing workshop, the purpose of
which usually is to write a lot, give and receive peer feedback, and
improve your writing. It seems unlikely that you can do both deeply and
well in one course,
If you want to make a point about the poor quality of college writing
workshops, you need to support your contentions with more evidence than
your own experience (Slate's a start, I suppose), and you need to make
your own experience irrefutable and compelling. "They can't even
SPELL!!" (yes, that's a paraphrase intended to show you at
disadvantage, not a quote) meets neither of those standards. As John
Ashby implied, "show, don't tell" is still one of the most important
principles of writing.
What you have shown here besides your peacock's tail is
contentiousness. Use that: it can take you where you want to go. But
apply some rigor to it--right now there's none.
Sounds like everyone in the workshop could do with a bit of the archaic
virtue humility. A good workshop gives everyone a small dose of that,
along with a bigger dose of justifiable pride from improved skills.
Every workshop has some good along with the bad, if only "here's
something that doesn't work." What have you learned from your workshop
(and this exchange) besides scorn? Have you gotten anything from it but
more people to despise?
If not, I'll say what I said before: get the hell out before you lose
your soul.
Christine |
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Ivor Longhorn
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Nov 18, 2005 4:50 am
Post subject: Re: No Wonder Writing Workshops Suck Shit (Re: Does Your Wri |
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Shazam! No reason, it's just magic. So "NYC XYZ"
<jack_foreigner@yahoo.com> said:
| Quote: |
OMG, are you still at it?
You need to learn how to read -- what's in front of you.
For others: it seems that my unease isn't isolated, for there is
dissatisfaction across academe, which almost mirrors point-for-point
some of my views!
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You need a writing workshop, squire. That paragraph would be illegal
in most states.
Dr Zen
Excruciatingly embarrasing signature contents go here.
http://gollyg.blogspot.com |
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NYC XYZ
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Nov 18, 2005 5:01 am
Post subject: Re: No Wonder Writing Workshops Suck Shit (Re: Does Your Wri |
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Ivor Longhorn wrote:
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You need a writing workshop, squire. That paragraph would be illegal
in most states.
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Uh, right -- all depends on your state of mind.
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