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Matti Lamprhey
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Nov 11, 2004 2:03 pm
Post subject: Re: Irony? |
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"Steve Hayes" <hayesmstw@hotmail.com> wrote...
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I was very puzzled by an American extolling the work of Mark Twain for
it's "gentle sarcasm".
To me, "gentle sarcasm" is a contradiction in terms (AmE= oxymoron).
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Good one.
Matti
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Dylan Nicholson
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Nov 11, 2004 10:08 pm
Post subject: Re: Irony? |
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"Steve Hayes" <hayesmstw@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:4192f2dd.255436445@news.saix.net...
| Quote: |
I was very puzzled by an American extolling the work of Mark Twain for it's
"gentle sarcasm".
Hah, another example of a sentence whose meaning changes by virtue |
of the apostrophe in the word "its".
The above, of course means that someone was praising Mark Twain's
work, because it is "gentle sarcasm". |
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Hagrinas Mivali
Guest
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| Posted: Sat Nov 13, 2004 3:05 am
Post subject: Re: Irony? |
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Dylan Nicholson wrote:
| Quote: | "Donna Richoux" <trio@euronet.nl> wrote in message
news:1gn1d6j.10sra5g1n1qvueN%trio@euronet.nl...
There's a major pondal difference, which is what I've seen to be the
usual source of the dispute. After seven years of Usenet
observation, I offer these distinctions:
British irony -- saying the opposite of what is meant, for humorous
effect. This is what many in US would call "sarcasm", but "sarcasm"
to the British (and even to some Yanks) is something bitter and
cutting, never a mild pleasantry.
American irony -- also known as "dramtic irony," closely related to
"poetic justice" and "twist of fate." A turn of events that is both
surprising and yet somehow predictable, deserved, fitting.
My experience is exactly the opposite. It is only Americans that I've
heard saying "I was being ironic", where I would use the word
sarcastic.
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That is ironic. (I was being sarcastic here.)
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Maria Conlon
Guest
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| Posted: Sat Nov 13, 2004 12:02 pm
Post subject: Re: Irony? |
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Dylan Nicholson wrote:
| Quote: | Donna Richoux wrote:
There's a major pondal difference, which is what I've seen to be the
usual source of the dispute. After seven years of Usenet
observation, I offer these distinctions:
British irony -- saying the opposite of what is meant, for humorous
effect. This is what many in US would call "sarcasm", but "sarcasm"
to the British (and even to some Yanks) is something bitter and
cutting, never a mild pleasantry.
American irony -- also known as "dramtic irony," closely related to
"poetic justice" and "twist of fate." A turn of events that is both
surprising and yet somehow predictable, deserved, fitting.
My experience is exactly the opposite. It is only Americans that I've
heard saying "I was being ironic", where I would use the word
sarcastic.
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And mine is the opposite of yours. Most of what I hear the British call
"irony" (in this newsgroup) is what I would call "sarcasm."
| Quote: |
The example Don gives below is the American sort.
Except that it wasn't, as already discussed.
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And I agree with you that it wasn't irony (at least, not what I would
call irony). It also didn't seem to be an example of the usual American
irony that Donna described (as American irony). Irony in the school
situation
would have been (as I believe you said) few or no people showing up,
thus demonstrating, though in a small way, that the need for more room
was not really a genuine need.
I guess I'm on both sides of this discussion.
Maria Conlon |
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